> -----Original Message-----
> From: tonyb522 [mailto:tonyb522@yahoo.com]
>
>
> excerpt from Qumranbet sabbath message 5-17-2002
> "The cow became Sacred and Untouchable.. and the people suffered..
> because they forgot what the gift was about in the first place"
> What a lie......again I see the tendency of an exclusionist to
> attempt to bash another's belief system by presenting lies as truth.
Tony, I think you have jumped to an errant conclusion, and unnecessarily
committed lashon hara against Tbear, whose Shabbat message seems to be
rooted in truth.
Here's some information from About.com's site, written and maintained by
Subhamoy Das, as very Indian kind of guy, and someone who would know:
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa101800b.htm
Indian Cows: Blessed Bovines!
Part 2: Religious Significance of the Cow
History
The cow was venerated as the mother goddess in the early Mediterranean
civilizations. The cow became important in India, first in the Vedic period
(1500 - 900 BCE), but only as a symbol of wealth. For the Vedic man cows
were 'the "real life" substratum of the goods of life', writes JC
Heesterman
in The Encyclopedia Of Religion, vol. 5.
Symbol of Sacrifice
Cows form the core of religious sacrifices, for without ghee or butter,
which is produced from cow's milk, no sacrifice can be performed.
In the Mahabharata, we have Bhishma saying: "Cows represent sacrifice.
Without them, there can be no sacrifice.Cows are guileless in their
behaviour and from them flow sacrifices.and milk and curds and butter. Hence
cows are sacred..."
Bhishma also observes that the cow acts as a surrogate mother by providing
milk to human beings for the whole life. So the cow is truly the mother of
the world.
Part 3: A Useful Gift from God
Cows As Gifts
Of all gifts, the cow is still considered the highest in rural India. The
Puranas have it that there is no gift more sacred than the gift of cows.
"There is no gift that produces more blessed merit." Lord Rama was
given a
dowry of thousands of cows and bullocks when he married Sita.
Cow-Dung, Ahoy!
Cows are also thought to be cleansers and sanctifiers. The cow-dung is an
efficacious disinfectant and often used as fuel in lieu of firewood. In the
scriptures, we find the sage Vyasa saying that cows are the most efficacious
cleansers of all.
No Beef Please!
Since the cow is thought to be God's useful gift to mankind, consuming beef
or veal is considered sacrilegious for Hindus. Selling beef is banned in
many Indian cities, and few Hindus would be ready to even taste cattle meat,
for socio-cultural reasons.
Brahmins & Beef
Hinduism and Islam: A Comparative Study, however, says that the cow used to
be slaughtered by the ancient Hindus for beef as well as sacrifice.
"There
are clear evidences in the Rig Veda, the most sacred Hindu scripture, that
the cow used to be sacrificed by Hindus for religious purposes." Gandhi
in
his Hindu Dharma writes about "a sentence in our Sanskrit text-book to
the
effect that Brahmins of old used to eat beef".
May Yihweh bless you and keep you,
--Salty--
Shalom, Tony.... as the author of last weeks message, I'm sorry
you consider
me to be an exclusionist, I for one am trying to find the pure way to think,
but to achieve that end I find it necessary to identify and then eliminate
excess baggage, those things not required for us to be, as you put it, the
beings YHWH manifested us to be.
The point of my message was to show that the Chrsitian concepts of the Devil
are not relevant as part of a continuity of a Judeo-Christian progression,
but instead that they have more to do with other religious beliefs/systems.
I don't know you Tony, but it seems to me your point has more to do with what
someone here used to promote as Edenic Law, i.e. vegetarianism (in part).
It was not my intent to condemn that belief; not even a part of what I meant
to promote. The analogy I sought to demonstrate was that sometimes people
lose track of why things become important to them. At one point in time, in
early Dravidian India, the cow provided for the people as the buffalo did for
the native Americans. And as a priesthood grew from raw tribal primativism to
a more advanced (?) culture, the way the people saw the cow changed. This
does not mean I think carnivores are greater or lesser than herbivores, it
means this is an actual set of events that are a part of man's history.
I eat meat. I am also an old hippy; I understand the value of a diet without
flesh as a component, but that is not what the message was meant to
convey.
If perchance you read Sci-fi/Fantasy and are familiar with a set of two
trilogies by a writer Stephen Donaldson.... The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
the Unbeliever... if you have read both sets... Aliantha... treasure
berries.. demonstrates very well the my intent... but you have to read over a
thousand pages to get there.
I was trying to debunk something.... the devil... who does not appear in
Torah, and who is associated with ha-satan from the Tenach.... and I do agree
with you in that "we can accept or embrace our individual responsibility
".... this was the point of my message... for us to accept responsibilty,
rather than to think as Flip Wilson suggested, "The Devil made me do
it."
Again I repeat Tony, I don't know you. I find myself wondering if the cow
thing pushed a button of yours and you reacted to that. It seems what you got
from the message was not so much about the Devil/Satan, but more about
dietary perogatives, and the intent of my message had nothing to do with
promoting one diet above another.
I do think that our purpose here does have to do with being caretakers, as
opposed to exploiters...
Maybe you could reread the message... and this time leave your baggage
behind. You said I presented lies as truth... you are probably like
me....
you dont want to be called a liar... but if someone says that about you, you
would politely ask them to show you where the inaccuracies are. What in the
message can you substantiate to be historically inaccurate?
Peace... Top
shalom salty,
look up the word dominion in a thesaurus....and you will find that
protectorate is another word king james scribes could have used as
well.....many words in all languages have many meanings....we as
humans have the tendency to choose the one we would like to use only
when it is advantageous to justify our desires...
and Noah and his brood as well.....were wandering in the wilderness
at the direction of YHWH as well....so YHWH made exceptions to permit
their immediate survival....but we must still affirm....YHWH is the
same today, yesterday, and tomorrow....so his desire for humankind's
behavior would still remain as it was prior to the flood...never
changing.....so YHWH out of His mercy made the exception .....yet He
still has the desire for Us to return to His original wishes...
"Only because that guaranteed that they would not be eating anything
treif."......this is your own personal hypothesis .....Daniel didnt
desire to defile himself with the foods that were being
prepared...what they were is anyones guess....but he specifically
asked for fruits , vegetables and water....pulse and water as some
translations say....and YHWH blessed them with many of His gifts...
so if we are to "read anything into these scriptures"....it would
seem wise to base that assumption on an earlier scripture...such as
the ones in Genesis...when humankind's association with YHWH had not
yet been polluted by transgression...
many places in scripture contain the allusion to Us being caretakers,
providers, and protectorates of weaker "creations"....from
orphans....to widows...the destitute...as well as our own "beasts of
burdens" whom we are to give rest to own the sabbath....
"And you think this came from being a vegetarian? There's nothing
to
> indicate that this came from anything other than their obedience to
YHWH.".....salty....in the context of the book of
Daniel....immediately after expaining the apparent physical benefits
their human diet gave daniel and his compatriots....it goes to
explain the spiritual benefits or gifts YHWH bestowed upon them....
Daniel could have asked just as easily for "clean meats" since he
had
gained favor in the eyes of his captors...but he didnt....he asked
for fruits and vegetables.....cant help but believe....that Daniel
knew what to ask for so he would find favor in YHWH's eyes as well.
....even when the nation was traveling in the wilderness...and
murmered about the food.....YHWH said they longed for the cucumbers
they ate in egypt.....
with these references....along with the many times i have read....a
land flowing with milk and honey.....and the verses which say
the "annoited's" diet would consist only of milk and honey so that
he
would know the difference between good and evil...or acceptable and
unacceptable...cant help but make me rest assured....that a diet
which does not kill another living "creation" is a diet that is most
acceptable in YHWH's eyes.
"whole purpose of mankind is "to be protectorates of the
lower animal creatures.".....my post didnt say it was our whole
purpose....lets not try and put anything into what i posted....I
mentioned it was part of our Original Purpose as outlined in the
first book....before we learned to transgress from YHWH's loving
care....since we know we have been led astray.....doesnt it make
sense that we should try and return to our original location and
fellowship with almighty YHWH?
TonyB
Shalom toppybear,
we have the ability to convey a message without stepping on another
groups or cultures core beliefs....one of the points you made in your
sabbath editorial...(editorial....because all the words used in your
message were your own....no where in your message was any reference
made to the "Words of the Book of Life")you made the statement that
the people of India suffered because they chose not to eat the flesh
of an animal...cow in particular.....and this is not true....it is a
falsehood and misconception....and as I mentioned...Daniel and His
compatriots....benefited greatly from a fleshless diet.
our desires are one of the excess bags we are to remove from our
heart and way of thinking if we are ever gonna be blessed with the
revelations Torah and the set apart spirit have to share.
many times i find that "teachers...preachers ...and soul reapers" in
an attempt to justify their longings....will use scripture to
validate a hypothesis used to justify a personal desire....a concept
which you alluded to in your message....
nope toppy....the cow didnt hit a trigger.....it was the stating of
personal theory...presented as Truth...that hit the button....unless
one has first hand knowledge and fellowshipped with Zoraster....one
can not say with any honesty...what that persons motives were...and
on the same hand....unless one experience the "percieved" suffering
of the people in India....one can not say with any honesty that they
suffered as a result of choosing not to eat beef....
we can debunk the devil...using Torah alone....we know
HaSatan....simply means adversary....even the rabbi Yahushua refered
to cephas as hasatan...when he told him...Get thee behind me satan...
same can be done with the concept of hell....sheol....simply means
the pit in the ground or the grave....not some netherworld ruled by
dante's pitch fork yeilding boogie-man.
lie...false statement....same meaning different word...the fact still
remains....it is only your opinion that the people suffered as a
result of their spiritual growth when they chose no longer to
sacrifice the cow for religious or dietary reasons....
and this is what hits my nerve....the presentation of opinion or
personal perspective as fact....which makes that statement be a false
witness against another.....i didnt say you lied....I said that
statement was a lie....even quoted the statement....so see toppy...i
realized that you didnt intentionally bear false witness against
another....i just simply brought it to our attention that we should
carefully guard our tounges....so that we dont confuse the issue by
bearing false witness in order to illuminate a truth.
and toppy....you do know me if you know you.....just remember who you
were before your parents lied to you about santa claus...the easter
bunny...the tooth fairy.....and before your parents told you animal
flesh was food....i can remeber as a youth....pushing the meat away
from my plate...and reaching for the fruits and veggies ... i had an
instictively natural taste for them....and we were forced to aquire
the taste for flesh....how bout you?....
peace...tony
--- In AmYHWH@y..., two2tandem@j... wrote:
> dan. 1:8 ¶ But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile
> himself with the king's food, nor with the wine which he drank;
>
> tony, when reading daniel 1 carefully, it does not say or even
suggest
> daniel was a practicing vegetarian, only that he would not defile
himself
> with the king's food.
He specifically requested fruits, vegetables and water for him and
his compatriots....the book of daniel goes on to explain the physical
benefits....as well as the spiritual one he and his compatriots
experience as a result of this diet.....having found favor in the
eyes of his captors...Daniel could have verily asked for "kosher"
meats..."clean" foods...and would have probably recieved them....but
he didnt....he asked for the diet prescribed in Genesis...our
original diet...prior to transgression or sin becoming a part of Us...
moreover....if we know we have sinned...transgressed....gone
astray...of our original path or purpose....isnt it logical that we
turn around and retrace our steps until we get back to the place we
belong.....in perfect harmony with YHWH's will or desire for us?...
many have run away from the false path of "churchianity".....and
have
now retraced their steps....back to the wilderness state..conforming
their behavior to YHWH's directives given to His wandering people....
and since he has led those to that point....I can't help but believe
that YHWH will continue to lead them further....all the way back to
Paradise....
what kind of beings....human-beings...not animals which react
instictively...but beings of compassion....that consider the pain
their actions inflict on other living "creations"...
when i say we are to protect and care for the "lower" species of
life....it does not mean we serve them....we serve the one who sent
or created them.....serving them does not place them of higher
importance than humans.....remember...."if any one desires to be
master of another...he must first become their servant"...."the
first
shall be last...and the last shall be first"....a paraphrase of Rabbi
Yahushua ben Yoseph's teachings to his students when they were
bickering about who was the "better" student...so with this in
mind...I rest assured that when I serve the least of these children
or creations....I am in fact rendering service directly to their
creator and mine ...YHWH
may his grace , peace and understanding shine on us all
tony
shalom friends,
I think my definition for the term exclusionist would be in order at
this time so that we all can understand that YHWH guides all His
children no matter what culture He manifested them in.
Exclusionist....is one who excludes YHWH from teaching His children
in another part of His Universe or another geographical region here
on planet earth because He spoke to them in their native language
which they could understand...instead of a foriegn language that was
beyond their ability to recognize....
When YHWH revealed his Essence to those who spoke hebrew....YHWH used
the hebraic language...
When YHWH revealed His Essence to the Arab people...YHWH used the
aramic language...
When YHWH revealed His Essence to the people of India....he used the
sanskrit language
the list goes on and on.....I truly believe that YHWH does, did and
will reveal His Essence to all that He creates....in a language that
they will easily understand
so therefore i do study all the "books of wisdom"...or "books
of Life"
given unto YHWH's children.....regardless of what culture they were
manifested in...
and as with all books penned through the hands of men....they all
contain some of the authors personal perspectives or definitions...so
in them all....I search for the jewels....and toss out the debris
By doing this I am able to realize.....there are many paths...which
lead to the same destination.....the presence of the eternal self
existent one.....who is called by many names....yet is the one and
only creator and sustainer of all there is and all there ever will be.
and when I reach this Presence....I know with all certainty....that
He, She or IT.....will be totally honest with me and everyone else
regarding It's nature and will.
come out of her my people.....come out of the trappings of
denominational thought and re-join my family....the "Family of Life"
for in my family are many members...as there are many branches on a
tree containing many leaves.....so is the same with Me.....the
Essence and Creator of all that the heavens and earth contain.
so I feel it is beneficial....to understand YHWH has and will
continue to reach and teach all his creation....regardless of what
classifications we label ourselves to be.....for labels only serve to
divide the family of Life...and will never bring about unity
shalom, salaam, namaste...peace unto you all...regardless of what
language you speak.
Tony
This question was posed to me recently by a co-worker during a
discussion about the U.S. Government's reaction to the 9-11 terrorist
attack.
When hit with this question, I grounded my answer in my immediate
circumstance by saying I was here only to assist my immediate
employer in his efforts to deliver the services which he provides and
for the wages he deems just and when he no longer needed my services,
I would move on.
During the course of the next few days that question continued to
reappear in my thoughts which resulted in my seeing that my response
was not only valid on the small and immediate scale, but it held true
in the bigger picture frame of my existence.
I am here to assist or serve my Creator in It's efforts to deliver
the services It provides for the wages It deems just and when It no
longer needs my service, I will move on.
This basic tenet can be found in all the "scriptures" given unto the
children of Life in all the corners of the globe. It can be found in
the teachings of Buddha in the Pali canon. It can be found in the
Hindu vedas and Bhagvad- Gita. It can be found in the Hebrew Torah
and the Greek New Testament and the Book of Mormon and it also can be
found in the Arabic Quran.
Each and everyone of us, regardless of what Faith we associate
ourselves with, have come forth from our mother's womb into a world
of darkness with an inherant compulsion to seek the Eternal and
Enduring Truth's so that me may bask in the warmth of their Light and
Wisdom.
Life manifests into existence those beings it finds beneficial for
the successful completion of It's service.... and each being, from
the moment of it's conception, begins the process of discovering the
Eternal Truths, because without them we have no hope for fulfilling
the purpose for which we were manifest. Some of the Eternal Truths
are easily discovered such as balance, while others require much more
effort since they lie buried under an accumilation dirt, much the
same way as prehistoric fossils, and the task of sifting through this
accumilation of debris rests squarely in our individual hands, hearts
and minds. We have been given the tools, but it is our individual
responsibility to put them to use.
Shalom, Salaam, Namaste, Peace unto you all
Tony
Shalom Tony,
I believe HaShem leads us 'from' all cultures. All are worthy to be
lead if they are willing. But I do not get the rest of this unity
concept. If how you expressed this concept were true, we would find the
exact same Torah in all cultures regardless of language - as YHWH does
not change, then neither His Word. YHWH is One. We are to return to
Him. Torah was given only through Moses. If you know of any other
culture that YHWH has expressed HIS unchanging Torah to and through
besides Israel, then please share. May you have a blessed Shabbos.
Peace, doe
Shalom Again Tony,
>>By doing this I am able to realize.....there are many paths...which
lead to the same destination....<<
Please share the BCV for the above statement.
>>the presence of the eternal self
existent one.....who is called by many names....<<
BCV for this above one also.
>>yet is the one and
only creator and sustainer of all there is and all there ever will be.<<
I got the BCV for the above end of your sentence. :)
Thanks,
doe
--- In AmYHWH@y..., doelion@w... wrote:
> Shalom Tony,
>
> I believe HaShem leads us 'from' all cultures. All are worthy to
be
> lead if they are willing. But I do not get the rest of this unity
> concept. If how you expressed this concept were true, we would
find the
> exact same Torah in all cultures regardless of language - as YHWH
does
> not change, then neither His Word. YHWH is One. We are to return
to
> Him. Torah was given only through Moses. If you know of any
other
> culture that YHWH has expressed HIS unchanging Torah to and through
> besides Israel, then please share. May you have a blessed Shabbos.
>
> Peace, doe
Shalom doe,
Torah is what?....Truth....the light of Truth...there are many
poetical references defining it in the hebraic "scriptures" as
they
are many poetical expressions concerning it in the "scriptures"
given
unto YHWH's many other children as well....
If you believe Hashem (the name)....leads us 'from' all
cultures...then you should be able to read the inspired "books of
Life" given to your siblings and discern YHWH's Torah or Truths
revealed in them as well.....regardless of when and by who they where
revealed to.
If not....then one can only summize that you are still burdened with
some form of cultural identity....
just as no 2 languages are identical...nor two cultures are
identical....neither will you find no two expressions of Truth to be
identical...but if one is willing to be led to the Truth...one can
find it in them all....just as you can find the authors of different
chapters (books) contained in the Torah to express YHWH's Truth with
varying styles and analogies....so too, can you find the same Truth
expressed in other forms of communication from other parts of the
globe....be it in paintings, poetry, music or literature....
personally....I will remain receptive to YHWH knowing YHWH will use
whatever medium, culture, or person YHWH deems fit to reveal the
Truth unto me as well as the rest of YHWH's creation....
I also will recieve and use the gifts the Creator has bestowed to
discern this Truth....because being human I know the tendencies we
humans have when we try to express complex as well as simple
understandings....
May the Creator's Light of Truth shine on Us All and keep Us in the
warmth of It's understanding....
Shalom, Salaam, Namaste, and peace unto you All
Tony
Shalom Tony,
For as long winded as your reply was you have failed to show me YHWH's
Torah has been given anywhere else in the world.
Waiting,
doe
--- In AmYHWH@y..., doelion@w... wrote:
> Shalom Again Tony,
>
> >>By doing this I am able to realize.....there are many
paths...which
> lead to the same destination....<<
>
> Please share the BCV for the above statement.
>
> >>the presence of the eternal self
> existent one.....who is called by many names....<<
>
> BCV for this above one also.
>
>
> >>yet is the one and
> only creator and sustainer of all there is and all there ever will
be.<<
>
>
> I got the BCV for the above end of your sentence. :)
>
> Thanks,
> doe
Shalom again doe,
BCV.....do you have a BCV for everything you "realize" ? I think
not.
Do you during discussions continually make reference to BCV for every
self-realization you have come upon? I think not....
within my post....the answers to your posed questions Are self-
evident.
these realizations came to me as i studied ALL the "inspired
scriptures" given unto humanity without the blinders of
denominational theology or doctrine.
when reading the Torah....I do so without any jewish or xtian
commentary.
when reading the Quran...I do so without any muslim commentary
when reading the Vedas or Bhagvad-Gita....I do so without any Hindu
commentary
when reading the Pali Cannon or writings of Sidhartta Guatama
(buddha) ....I do so without any Buddhist commentary
Approaching study in this manner....whom do you think guides me unto
the revelations or realizations I find while doing this?
none other than the set-apart spirit of Truth.
"look to no man for understanding...." we all know the value of
the
jewels we find during the course of our existence.
Peace,
Tony
Shalom Tony,
Again you have failed to answer the questions. You will not be able to
answer the BCV's here as they do not exist. What you believe is your
business just as what brother Steve believes is his business. You
cannot go around 'correcting' anyone's beliefs, thoughts or knowledge based
on mere opinion. If you thought there was something to teach, then teach
what YHWH has spoken, not what you 'think' to be more correct.
In His Name,
doe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tonyb522 [mailto:tonyb522@yahoo.com]
>
> [...]
>
> BCV.....do you have a BCV for everything you "realize" ? I
think not.
Of course not. However, all realizations - private 'prophecies' if you
will - must be verified with TN"K to make sure that they do not
contradict
Torah, and should harmonize as well with TN"K.
In the case of 'many paths lead to the same destination,' TN"K makes it
clear that only one path leads to YHWH; the Rabbinic and Pauline notion of
righteous Gentiles being able to come to Him without Torah is not supported.
> within my post....the answers to your posed questions Are self-
> evident.
If that were true, we wouldn't be debating them with you.
> these realizations came to me as i studied ALL the "inspired
> scriptures" given unto humanity
What's your criteria for deciding what is an 'inspired scripture' and what
is not?
> when reading the Torah....I do so without any jewish or xtian
> commentary.
Me, too. That's what showed me that Xianity is false, and that
Rabbinic
Judaism is also in error. But that begs the question: if all paths
lead to
the same destination, then what's wrong with studying according to Rabbinic
Jewish or Christian commentary? Are those somehow less valid paths to
YHWH?
Are they, in your opinion, among those paths which do NOT lead to YHWH?
> Approaching study in this manner....whom do you think guides me unto
> the revelations or realizations I find while doing this?
Quite possibly your own desires about what you want to find. I'm not
saying
that's the case; I'm just voicing the possibility.
> none other than the set-apart spirit of Truth.
Sounds polytheistic. Is Truth a demigod?
> "look to no man for understanding...."
That is the Karaite way, as far as studying TN"K. However, there
is no harm
in listening to other men and women who have studied longer, or are better
qualified in some areas (such as the Hebrew language). When you study
Torah, Quran, the Vedas or Bhagvad-Gita, the Pali Cannon or writings
of
Sidhartha Gautama, do you study them in their original languages?
One final question: what's the point of your excessive use of
ellipses? It
really makes it difficult to read your posts.
May Yihweh bless you and keep you,
--Salty--
--- In AmYHWH@y..., "doelion" <doelion@w...> wrote:
>
>
> Shalom All,
>
> I don't mean to interupt this conversation but I have a question.
>
> Please explain how this view is compatible with the direct command
to eat the first Passover lamb. Israel is commanded by YHWH to eat
flesh are they not?
>
> May the Father bless you and keep you.
> doe
>
Shalom doe and Sis Yahchanan,
There is more to that Instruction or Commandment than simply eating
the flesh of the lamb....
Many times I find when giving instructions to someone whom I am
training for a task...it benefits that persons learning process when
I dont give them all the answers to their "why" questions....and I
am
certain YHWH works in similar fashion.....
during the application of the instructions or commandments the
student learns concrete or valid Truths while executing abstract
tasks.
no where in my post did i say that a student should not partake of
the lesson of the passover lamb.....cause I know that when one
follows the Teacher's prescribed formula...one will learn the lesson
the teacher is trying to convey.
doe and sis....i am certain you will know the BCV for the instuctions
for the passover so there is no need for me to "quote" them for
you.
The student who chooses to partake in the lesson of the passover will
do the following...
they will choose a yearling lamb from their flock without blemish...
they will take this living creature into their home or tent to
observe it for a period of 14 days to insure it is without defect...
then They shall slaughter it, prepare and consume it according to the
recipe given by the teacher.....and yes the spreading of its blood on
the lintels and jambs of the doorway is part of the recipe (thought i
should mention that before some literalist points out that I omitted
a step)
Then they will reflect upon the process during a course of remeberance
and will learn the lesson's or Truths the Teacher is trying to convey.
Some students will learn the lessons faster than others and repetion
of the "teaching tool" will be necessary and when they are ready
for
the next course of instruction they and the Teacher will move on to
the next lesson.
With the passover celebration of remeberance still fresh in our minds
and experience.....what are some of the Truths you learned from the
experience or what self-realizations did the Teacher lead you to
discover?
As you reflect on the experience....I am certain you will discover
it's Truths.
and one of the truths i was led to discover.....is even the perfect
is slain.
may YHWH's Light of Truth shine upon all our realizations (another
word for understanding)]
peace,
Tony
P.S.
almost forgot to explain how the passover is compatible with Daniel's
as well as my chosen daily diet....
often times we must do things at the direction of our Teacher we may
find offensive....but we do them anyway....cause we Trust that our
Teacher is going to guide us into the Light of Truth through the
lesson.
--- In AmYHWH@y..., Robert Sewell <bsewell@u...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tonyb522 [mailto:tonyb522@y...]
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > BCV.....do you have a BCV for everything you "realize" ?
I think
not.
>
> Of course not. However, all realizations - private 'prophecies'
if
you
> will - must be verified with TN"K to make sure that they do not
contradict
> Torah, and should harmonize as well with TN"K.
>
> In the case of 'many paths lead to the same destination,' TN"K
makes it
> clear that only one path leads to YHWH; the Rabbinic and Pauline
notion of
> righteous Gentiles being able to come to Him without Torah is not
supported.
>
> > within my post....the answers to your posed questions Are self-
> > evident.
>
> If that were true, we wouldn't be debating them with you.
>
> > these realizations came to me as i studied ALL the "inspired
> > scriptures" given unto humanity
>
> What's your criteria for deciding what is an 'inspired scripture'
and what
> is not?
>
> > when reading the Torah....I do so without any jewish or xtian
> > commentary.
>
> Me, too. That's what showed me that Xianity is false, and that
Rabbinic
> Judaism is also in error. But that begs the question: if all
paths
lead to
> the same destination, then what's wrong with studying according to
Rabbinic
> Jewish or Christian commentary? Are those somehow less valid
paths
to YHWH?
> Are they, in your opinion, among those paths which do NOT lead to
YHWH?
>
> > Approaching study in this manner....whom do you think guides me
unto
> > the revelations or realizations I find while doing this?
>
> Quite possibly your own desires about what you want to find. I'm
not saying
> that's the case; I'm just voicing the possibility.
>
> > none other than the set-apart spirit of Truth.
>
> Sounds polytheistic. Is Truth a demigod?
>
> > "look to no man for understanding...."
>
> That is the Karaite way, as far as studying TN"K. However,
there
is no harm
> in listening to other men and women who have studied longer, or are
better
> qualified in some areas (such as the Hebrew language). When you
study
> Torah, Quran, the Vedas or Bhagvad-Gita, the Pali Cannon or
writings of
> Sidhartha Gautama, do you study them in their original languages?
>
> One final question: what's the point of your excessive use of
ellipses? It
> really makes it difficult to read your posts.
>
>
> May Yihweh bless you and keep you,
>
> --Salty--
Shalom salty,
Even within Judaism....you find many paths or sects or schools of
thought...do you not?
You can look at any of humanities "religions" or theological
expressions and find they contain many paths...or sects....True?
Yes....when i study the other books....and i have trouble making
sense out of the english translation...I will go to the earlier
languages to help ascertain what the original authors may have been
trying to convey....just as the english translation of the evolved
hebrew language is lacking....so to is the english translations of
the other texts...
as far as the .... goes
why does your posts have all the < < < in them...
oh yea....you keep hitting the carriage return in lieu of allowing
the software to wrap the message text to the viewing window...
did you ever consider that this makes your messages difficult to read?
> "Quite possibly your own desires about what you want to
find. I'm
not saying
> that's the case; I'm just voicing the possibility."
this answer could hold true with all of yours as well ...salty
but I gave my answer when I stated it was the set-apart spirit of
Truth that guides me....not the imaginations of men.
for one to be able to come to a realization or ressurection of
Truth...another prior realization had to be laid to rest.
This held true when you realized xtianity was false...did it not?
"Me, too. That's what showed me that Xianity is false, and that
Rabbinic
> Judaism is also in error. But that begs the question: if all
paths
lead to
> the same destination, then what's wrong with studying according to
Rabbinic
> Jewish or Christian commentary?"
Salty....it is wrong for the same reasons you stated....if one feels
that a school of thought is in error...why hinder your learning
process by studying the commentaries of their erroneous
teachers...when you can study the texts under the guidance of the set-
apart spirit of Truth? My statement said all paths lead to the same
destination....it didnt say all teachings did.
Salty...Do you believe YHWH simply stopped teaching his children some
2,500 years ago? Do you believe YHWH quit serving up Torah to his
flock some 2,500 years ago. I most certainly do not. I also believe
YHWH adds new chapters to Torah with each passing generation and with
each passing day...but mankind is simply to lazy to assimilate them
and "religious" leaders are to arrogant to accept the daily Torah
which YHWH freely gives the flock...cause it didnt come through them.
May the Light of Truth shine on all our minds, hearts, and actions
Tony
shalom doe,
none of my post were "correcting" anyone as you are so kind to
construe...
and contrary to your beliefs about what I go around doing...be ye
advised....it is not you whom I serve...so I do not require your
permission or acceptance nor must I offer you any apologies for
anything which I have been taught at YHWH's hand.
You are just a guilty as you claim me to be....you dont even bother
to attempt an answer to the questions I pose to you,...however I did
answer yours...just not in the context you desired.
but non the less YHWH has bestowed on me patience for others as well
as some understanding as to why they act the way they do.
and I know that with all certainty YHWH can do this for others as
well....once in all humility they come and kneel before YHWH's Throne
of Truth.
peace,
tony