Shabat Services in Hawkins, Yesterday

YeriYah and YahChannah, Shalom! Would y'all by chance know a Mitchell Smith? He had a crane fall on top of him about a year ago. Or Tim and Angie Kelly? Very nice people, who should be accounted among those who our meek. We went to thier house in Hawkins for Shabat yesterday, where I found myself in debate with a bunch of WWCG/CGI folks who used the so-called New Testament to prove everything, but would not touch the T"NK. The only people that touched the T"NK were Tim and Angie Kelly who hosted the service --they, like the people that I teach here in the Cedar Creek Lake area, are more concerned with what the T"NK says, knowing that if the so-called New Testament is suppossed to agree with the T"NK then you should be able to only use the T"NK to prove your beliefs without ever picking up the so-called New Testament, and if you can't, then you should not believe what you find in the so-called New Testament. I thought that these people were good people, but some of the people that came to their house, need to do some more studying from the T"NK and less from the so-called New Testament. They did not know what to do when I started to confront their statements. It was interesting. Yohanan Shalom b'David

Yohanan, Shalom; Well again I am in the position of pleading ignorance. These people you have named i do not recall. As to Tanach proof vs NT proof, the whole of the Xtian world sees truth through distorted Greek colored glasses. It is sad when our brother Hebrews also seem happy to be fitted with this second rate eye wear when a distortion free, Hebrew prescription has been fashioned for their needs. In His Love is Life... YeriYah benAbba

YeriYah benAbba, As to the "Greek colored glasses:'" could you recommend a source dissecting the relationship of xtianity to Hellenistic philosophies. I am unclear as to how xtianity follows Greek thought. Not disputing or disagreeing, on the contrary, I need a better understanding so my own arguments on that topic are more coherent. Thanks, Johannah

Shalom Johannah; I'd be happy to begin a list of the ways Greek thought filtered in to Hebrew thinking but it is 8:06 pm and my mind is not sharp at this hour so in the cool light of morning I will respond more fully and coherently. For starters consider the confusion of having Torah, Writings and Prophets in the Greek language. Hades is not Sheol, Eirene is not Shalom. This is only a beginning but as you explore the NT you find these men were using the Greek translation (LXX) of the Hebrew Scriptures and subject to the nuances and unintentional mistranslations contained in this work. Of even more consequence is the world view and the universalism introduced into what had been a (set apart)cloistered people. Here are two links one is for a book and both seem to favor the interrelationship but admit its reality. http://www.saintmark.com/topics/patrology/schoolofalex/IV-StClement/chapter3 .html http://www.ayerpub.com/product.asp?ProductID=4400000001906&Res=T After thought: you know the extent our people went to exclude 'foreign' influence seeing it as deleterious to the purity of our nation. In His Love is Life... YeriYah benAbba

Well Shalom, boker tov and here it is bright and early and i am almost overwhelmed with the weight of this delineation question. As i begin to gather my thoughts i am struck with the enormity of the task and begin to see this as a truly major undertaking if we want to be thorough. Maybe now i know how Ethienne felt when asked to explore the Tithe question. The help Salty offered with a link to 'The Jesus Mysteries' is much appreciated. The coverage of this topic is crucial to understanding the archetype/antitype messiah in true light of Hebrew thought. A 'Greek demigod' cannot begin to fill the outline of HaMashiyach we look forward to. Sis is sitting behind me and has just said, "Yeri, you really ought to write a complete expose' ". Well let's start with a thesis statement.... "The corruption of Hebraic thought by the invading Alexander the Great was not stemmed by the Maccabees nor by YahuShua ben Yosef in his first Century attempt to reestablish THE Kingdom. " Thinking of the structure, maybe I ought to begin with the historical invasion by Alexander and underscore the Davidic/Levitical purity being compromised, defiled publicly by the Antiochus Epiphanes. How the good Hebrew people rose up and 'true da bums out' temporarily. How the very basis of acceptance of truth to the Greek is a mental exercise, demonstration and consensus where Hebrews acceptance was based on the book and on signs..(I should not forget to include that our whole modern educational system is based on the Greek model so we have an overwhelming tendency to adopt their methodology.) Well Abba I pray for your guidence in this, may your will be done. In His Love is Life... YeriYah benAbba

Brothr YeriYah, Looking forward to the book. When do you think you may have it complete? Are you taking orders yet? I would like to reserve several copies -- ! I like your line "the very basis of acceptance of truth to the Greek is a mental exercise...etc." Now that is getting to the heart of it! That is what I see as the very deep revelation-- not to pun, but the way the "Greeks," ie, western thought, looks at life and truth is different from the Torah Way. If we cannot understand the difference, we become embroiled in questions that otherwise wouldn't even come up. This "Greek outlook" so permeates our world it is difficult to extract ourselves physically, spiritually, consciously, totally--from its influence. But perhaps if we can grasp exactly what it is we are separating from, and how it worked its way into the fiber of our civilzation, then we may understand how to be rid of it. And by contrast, our Torah walk would become clearer. So you are getting at what exactly IS the profound and basic diference? I mean, belief in YHWH has got to be more then just slapping belief on top of thousands of years of wrongheaded thinking. I tried to explain to my husband this weekend that believing in YHWH and followingTorah is a PROCESS of unlearning, as well as learning. Its like scrubbing off old dead skin, in order to grow new... It seems to me one can't just ADD Torah to one's life, it is an exercise in replacement-(not to be confused with replacement theology! LOL) which can be very painful because it is never quite clear if one is getting rid of the right things, and/or reconfiguring correctly. Does this make sense to you? At an rate--keep writing and thinking on this topic. It is extremely important, and the only way we will get out of these "graves" of dead-end philosophies that are so prevalent we don't even recognize the degree to which we participate. (I speak for myself, evryone else may have figured this out.) Thank you, Johannah

Brother YeriYah, Reading your dissertation again-- begin with "The corruption of Hebraic thought by the invading Alexander the Great..." THERE - "the corruption of Hebraic thought..." WHAT is Hebraic thought? HOW corrupted? There, right there between those lines. Explain that to me. Johannah

In His Love is Life... YeriYah benAbba

Johannah, Shalom! Hebraic thought has always known that the earth is round, even when Western/Greco-Roman thought it was flat (even though they had a copy of the T"NK which states that it is a sphere). In biblical-Hebraic thought, a female become a woman at the time of her menstrual cycle, which was about the age of 12, and thus girls around the Second Temple perios had their "Bat Mitzvah" ceremony at age 12, making them women -- and then they were married. I am sure though that these girls could have this ceremony earlier if their menstrual cycle began earlier. In modern times, however, despite the fact that science has proven that females are physically ready for acts performed within a marriage, that it is wrong until they are eighteen, or older, and that they should not marry until this age. Well, at age 12 they have higher potency to become pregnant, and having many children was important in Hebraic thought as it still is, because it gaurantees the welfare of the family. As they get older females loose this potency as we well know, and if they wait to long then they will not be able to have children, and this is a disgrace in Hebraic thought. Because of this, polygamy is also accepted within Hebraic thought -- because this gaurantees many children, and when one woman becomes to old to bare children any more, a younger wife could be taken to concubine with to promote the family. Is all of this wrong? I cannot answer this question, but I know that this was once Hebraic thought, and the question comes to my mind reading the Torah, if it is alright to take a woman to wife after her "Bat Mitzvah", or to have more than one wife? I pray that my wife doesn't read this... I am only kidding, because she has the same questions too. Too many questions, and not enough answers.... Yohanan Shalom b'David

shalom yohannan,

this was very interesting!! i cringe at the thought of my 13yo step-daughter getting married, but then our life here is very western and the children are considered immature at this age but then again, this is about the age they begin to rebel and seek to be considered adults. perhaps if we were choosing and arranging the marriage it would be different, and with this perspective, it would have been important to make such decisions for girls of this age who would choose partners for their interest and looks ("love") rather than their ability to care for them over the years. we have much backwards here. we make them wait until they are "mature" enough to make reasonable decisions and this has led to a generation of women who have no children because they waited too long inorder to pursue the "american dream". my dad tried to arrange a marriage for me when i was 17 by sending me to meet a man through some family. the man was 35. the day i was to meet him, he was not there so things did not work out as my dad had wanted - i am grateful for this because i was raised in america, not the "old country" and would have been most apposed to this (and was shocked later in life when i figured out what was to have happened during my two week imposed exile - lol and to which he openly admitted later).

as far as the polygamy, i have read that it was outlawed judaicly around the 10th cent and had not been widely practiced for a millineum before this. it was considered a khillul ha-Shem (desecration of God's name), because jews were seen as having a lower morality than their christian neighbors. ("jewish literacy" by rabbi joseph telushkin) torah law permitted polygamy but torah narrative opposed it. rabbi telushkin reports that virtually every polygamous relationship described in tanakh is miserably unhappy. he goes on to say that torah's clear preference is to "one man, one wife" genesis 2:24. and the most obvious reference being that of adam and eve, not adam and eve and joan. lol

the monogomous relationship stuff came from rabbi gershom of germany.

Hit Counter